Live blogging The Saddleback Forum

Live blogging of the debate is below the fold. . .

Okay -- so what do you think?

IR Editor says McCain did an outstanding job tonight and that he now doesn't need someone like Mike Huckabee for VP.  Couldn't help but think that Pat Hickey ("With Both Hands" blog) had to be absolutely squealing with McCain's performance tonight. 

(This morning it occurred to me that David McSweeney, who has supported McCain from early on, must also be happy with his guy's performance.  And it goes without saying that Jim Durkin, the state's McCain chairman, has to be happy, too.)

In our opinion, Obama started out looking strong, and McCain looked surprisingly comfortable talking about his faith with Rick Warren.

9:30 PM:  IR Publisher Dennis LaComb writes,"McCain hit it out of the park and clearly bested Obama on all the critical issues of our time."

Jill says "McCain did great!"  Karen's putting on her McCain bumper sticker.

Your thoughts this morning?

We're ready for the McCain/Obama conversation with Rick Warren -- beginning with Barack Obama at 7:00 PM. . . Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church.

Identical questions of each -- Obama to go first.

Standing ovation . . .interesting.

He is getting greyer -- part of the image building?-

Three wisest people?

• Michelle --that's scary!
• His grandmother -- the one he threw under the bus?
• Sam Nunn ---Richard Lugar -- Ted Kennedy/Tom Coburn -- have a table where a lot of views are voiced 

Greatest moral failure

• Drugs and alchohol as a youth
• It's not about me  -- Warren's book opens with the comment --"It's not about you."
• quotes Scripture -- applies to poverty, racismk sexism, not providing ladders for people to get in to the middle class -- we don't spend enough time thinking about the needy (Nothing about the innocent unborn)

Cross party lines for the good of America?

• Ethics legislation with John McCain
• Opposing the war in Iraq

Name a position ten years ago when he changed his mind

• Welfare reform -- Illinois legislature  for child care for those women being kicked off welfare worked better than I thought it should be.  "Work has to be involved in any public policy."

Most gut-wrenching decision he ever had to make?

• War in Iraq -- firmly convinced we did not have evidence of weapons of mass destruction
• Putting kids in harm's way -- you do everything you can to get that decision right
• How long do you finance it?

*********** Break ****************

What do you think????

Karen says it seems like he's spouting safe politically-correct answers.

Fran says what did you expect?

Jill opened up the bar. hahaha -(Just kidding, Baptists!)

**********

Worldview discussion -- Obama continued

What does it mean to trust in Christ?

• Jesus Christ died for my sins, I am redeemed through Him. 
• It means that my sins will "hopefully" be washed away.  The least of these . . . David's prayer -- Walk humbly with thy God. 

Abortion -- 40 million abortion -- at what point does a baby get human rights?  "Answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade."

• One thing -- there is a moral and ethical dilemma point and 2) I believe in abortion -- I don't think some make this decisions carelessly --
• The goal should be reduce the number of abortions -- abortions have not gone down - Have you ever voted to limit abortion? -- to limit late term abortions -- with the health exception.
• Unwanted pregnancies -- allow health care needed, the options of preventing pregnancies.

Define marriage

• Union between a man and a woman for me as a Christian -- God's in the mix.
• Would you support a constitutonal amendment -- states both sides of the argument
• Do not promote same sex marriage but do support civil unions --

"State's rights for marriage, but not for abortion" -- Jill says.

************

Stem cell research with embryos -- we should proceed "in a careful way."

Does evil exist -- evil does exist?  Evil in Darfur? We see parents who abuse their children (before birth?)

• We are not going to erase evil. 
• We need to confront evil with humility.

Which Supreme Court justice would you NOT have nominated? 

• Not Clarence Thomas. 
• Not Justice Scalia. 
• John Roberts is a compelling person. 
• One of the most important jobs for the Supreme Court is to guard against the exec branch attaining too much power than Constitution planned.

Would you promote faith-based programs?

• Working with churches taught me the power of faith-based programs. 
• They are always free to hire who they want. 
• If they are federally-funded, there are qualifications for hiring. 
• There are "tough" issues -- federally-funded, but only those of my religion. 
• Generally speaking, faith-based orgs should not be advantaged or disadvantaged because they're faith-affiliated.

Education -- America is 19th in education -- 1st in incarcerations -- are you for merit-based pay for teachers?

• Performance-based teachers
• The unions working with them
• Pay more, but reward excellence.

Taxes -- define "rich"? 

• If you have book sales of $25 million --
• If you are making $150,00 or less a year you're either middle class or poor. 
• If you're making more than $250,000 -- you're doing okay. 
• If we believe in good schools, good roads, kids should go to college-- you have to pay for those things.
• It's irresponsible to spend &10 billion a year for a war. 

OH BROTHER!!  -- says Fran

***********

What's worth sending Americans to die for? 

• Freedom

What would be the criteria to end genocide? 

• There's no hard and fast line.  It is always a judgment call. 
• If we have it within our power to prevent it, then we should act. 

Would you enter a war without UN approval?? 

• Yes, of course. 

There are 148 million orphans in the world.  Would you be willing to do some sort of emergency plan for orphans. 

• I cheated a little -- I looked at this ahead of time. 
• We need to figure out what we can do?  We need to prevent more orphans --

Chinese --lead by example with religious tolerance here in the United States

Criminal human trafficking? 

• Top priority -- bi-partisan agreement.  More effective tools for prosecuting these criminals -- enslavement here in America.

When did your mother get angry with you?  When he was being mean to other kids.  I have the ability to build bridges to find common sense answers. 

What do you say go people who oppose me asking you these question?  We'll get the president that we need.  I want people to know me well.  We need more of these conversations. 

What would you say if you knew there would be no repercussions?

• Solving the energy question will be difficult. 
• Sacrifice will be involved -- we should make sacrifices on behalf of the next generation.

Would you stand if you were in the audience?

********************

Second half . . .with John McCain

Three wisest counselors?

• General David Petreaus
• John Lewis -- most optimistic -- skull fracture -- who is that? An African-American Congressman/civil rights leader
• Meg Whitman-- CEO of eBay -- 12 million employed

Greatest moral failure and the greatest moral failure of America

• Failure of my first marriage (Wow -- an incredibly honest response!)
• Not devoted ourselves to causes that benefit more than us -- a call to patriotism  "This is not about you"  -- that means serve a cause greater than your self interest (Both Obama and McCain did their homework. . .)

Have you ever changed your mind on an issue, if so what?

• Offshore drilling -- it's a national security issue.
• France's energy is 80 percent nuclear.  We should expand our nuclear energy resources.

***********

Karen says -- He's doing very well.  Jill's happy for now. . .  We like what we're hearing. 

***********

Toughest decision you've ever had to make and the process you went through to make it?

• While in the Vietnamese prison camp, McCain said no when he was offered a chance to leave prison out of order because his father was an admiral.  "It was tough, but it was the best decision I ever made."  "It took a lot of prayer."

*************

We're relieved and think he's giving substantial answers with detail and emotion.  Jill said he showed vulnernability when mentioning his first marriage. 

*************

What does your faith in Christ means to you? 

• "I'm saved and forgiven." 
• Then he told the story of a Vietnamese prison camp guard that silently and inexplicably loosened ropes to ease McCain's torture.  McCain said on the following Christmas Day he met up with the guard again, and they were "two Christians worshipping together" as the guard drew a cross in the sand with the toe of his show to signal their common faith and explain the reason he loosed the torture ropes.

Powerful, moving anecdote

When does a baby get his human rights? 

• At the moment of conception. 
• I will be a prolife president with prolife policies.

Define marriage?

• a union between one man and one woman. 

Were the California judges right to decide marriage should be open to same sex couples?

• I believe they were wrong
• I am a federalist, and for state's rights to recognize the unique status of marriage.  Same sex couples can enter into a legal agreement to give benefits.  if the courts forced other states to make that policy, I would support a federal amendment.

Stem cell research ?

• McCain re-affirmed he supports embyronic stem cell research, but has hopes for skin cell research.

Is there such a thing as evil, and what would you do with it?

• McCain said he would defeat evil, not tolerate it. 
• I will follow Osama Bin Laden to the pit of hell to get him [for 9-11]. 
• Radical islamic extremism is today's enemy. 
• We must defeat evil. 
• We are winning and succeeding and we will come home successful from Iraq.

Which Supreme Court would you not have nominated??

• Ginsberg
• Souter
• Breyer
• Stevens
• Judges should be strict constitutionalists. 
• Proud of President Bush for nominating Roberts and Alito.

What about our education system?

• I support choice in education -- Choice and Competition -- I want every family to have the choice in education Cindy and I had and Barack and his wife have --
• Home schooling works , charter schools work -- voucher system
• Education is today's civil rights issue --what kind of opportunity if you send them to a failing school?

Define "rich" -- where do you move from middle class to rich? 

• Some of the richest people he knows are the unhappiest. 
• You're rich if you have  a home, a good job, a family.
• "I want everyone to get rich."   
• "Some people think some who working sixteen hours a day, seven days a week are rich.  \
• "Let's give them a tax credit for each child they have and give them tax breaks to buy their own health insurance."
• "$5 million is rich"
• "We want to keep taxes low -- we need to keep spending low." 
• Congress went on vacation when American homes are in crisis. "They never miss a pay raise nor a vacation." 
• "I don't want to raise anybody's taxes."
• Americans are sitting at their tables --
• "We've got to give them hope in the future. I can lead and I can inspire."

When does our right to privacy and national security collide? 

• It does collide, and we have to keep up our capabilities to protect our nation.
• We need to sit down between party leaders and work this out. 
• (We also need to keep a secret ballot for union organizers)

Karen said she'll put the McCain bumper sticker on her van tonight.  Jill is much more impressed than she's ever been.  And the homeschooling comment caused Fran to yell "woo hoo!" 

Jill closed the bar. ( Ha-ha, again, Baptists, we're kidding!)

What is worth dying for and worth committing lives for?

• Freedom and national security. 
• There's tyranny and tragedy -- we can't right every wrong -- but we can be a shining city on a hill.
• We can defeat radical Islamic interests --
• We are to stop genocide -- Cindy (his wife) and others recently went to Rwanda where the women are taking charge to prevent more slaughter. 
• Georgia -- Villages are being burned == 118 thousand killed -- Georgia is an old Christian nation.  The president was educated in US -- the Russians coming in an act of agression.  The Russians need to respect Georgia's territorial integrity.  Get humanitarian aid  to them.  Send message to Russians this will not be tolerated.

How to stand up against religious persecution in China/Iraq?

• President's bully pulpit is a great asset. 
• Used Reagan's example of fighting communism. 
• Judeo-Christian principles make us responsible to promote freedom. 

What about the worldwide orphan crisis?

• Adoption should be easier in this country. 
• McCain's hero Teddy Roosevelt talked about adoption. 
• Seventeen years ago in Bangledesh -- Mother Theresa handed McCain's wife Cindy two little babies who weren't going to live.  McCain's wife brought home a 5 week old baby -- she is now the McCain's 17 year old daughter.

Why do you want to be president? 

• Thisis a time to come together -- I put my country first while I was in the military and in the U.S. Senate. 
• Americans feel its time to put our country first. 
• I'll be the president of every American, and I'll always put my country first.

What do you say about answering these questions from a pastor in a church setting?

• Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, I'm honored to be here and want to get the message out in every venue.

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More above in conclusion . . .